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Disable auto-save turned on by default in EDI or use history vs auto-save
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Description

Playing around with EDI. I opened a minor text file, removed all text to take some screenshots. I closed EDI without ever saving said document. To my surprise the document was empty. Thankfully nothing I cared about. Most anything you open a file in, modify, and then close. Will prompt you to save your changes. I was never prompted. I assume because it auto saved itself. Either way it was a bit surprising to see a file I did not save be empty.

Something to consider as a better alternative to auto save is auto history. In Netbeans as I type anything it keeps its own local history of the file changes. Basically an auto save feature where I can go back and grab changes, etc. Not sure if its doing it via VC, but displays changes via diff of that time and current file.

There maybe some cases where auto save is desired for some. Though usually done with a ~ preffix as to not mess up original file till saved by someone's direct action. If I edit a file via nano and kill nano, it will output a saved file. Various ways to go about such.

Moot to me as I do not use EDI, but it was a bit surprising thus the feedback. Do with it what you will.

wltjr created this task.Oct 16 2017, 2:00 PM
ajwillia.ms closed this task as Wontfix.Oct 16 2017, 3:13 PM
ajwillia.ms claimed this task.
ajwillia.ms added a subscriber: ajwillia.ms.

You can turn this behaviour off in settings.
Also if your project is not in source control you may have bigger problems :)

wltjr added a comment.Oct 16 2017, 3:30 PM

I am aware it is in settings. I was using it as a straight editor. To be honest only using EDI so ecrire code is not blamed for elm_code issues.

My projects are in VC and I use Netbeans. I have history of each file in addition to my VC history of committed work. Most of what Netbeans has in history is code I did not want to commit, WIP not worthy of being saved....

That you missed my point that it should not be on by default per what it did to a basic file I was opening and editing. That is not a good first time user experience. Nor the others I have had with EDI. In part why I do not use it. Why I said its moot to me. But many things I run into effects others as well. Thus I filed this bug more for others than myself. Clearly some do not care about others experience. Great way to grow a user base and encourage more usage.

Again it should be off by default. Or the feature improved all around. Auto saving is a thing of the past used on unreliable systems. Or for things that crash often.....

wltjr added a comment.Oct 16 2017, 3:34 PM

BTW, even if Netbeans crashes, any history of work I did, remains.... :) No need for auto save :)

Everything with local is in Netbeans history. You can see the commits as well.
https://ui.netbeans.org/docs/ui/LocalHistory/

wltjr added a comment.Oct 16 2017, 3:42 PM

Nice job of being receptive to feedback and being open to improving things... Your junk nuked a minor text file and you basically do not care... Yet you expect others to code using this? Or others to help you further this stuff? More and more reasons why I do not use EDI and do not see myself ever using it. How many others use EDI? Compared to say Netbeans or others.... Lots of things to improve, starting with being receptive to others work flow beyond your own....

clearly this is something you feel passionately about but there is little need to be so abrupt. Let me clarify the issue as you described.

  1. You open a Edi as a text editor
  2. Deleted all the text in a file
  3. Quit the IDE

There was no crash, in fact it did exactly what it should. This is against your expectation as you would prefer

*) It did not autosave
or
*) It allows you to undo any local mistakes that are made

The first is an option that can be changed to match personal preference. We are not enforcing my opinion or ignoring others - simply providing an option (why is that not acceptable?)
The second is normally provided by SCM. Edi struggles to do everything and as any good tool it out-sources those things to focus on it's main task. In this manner any project created within Edi has a local git repo to provide history. Git, as some other SCMs, has local commits. Edi provides the UI to commit locally and we are working on adding a history browser as part of the new edi_scm workflow.

Lastly - your sentiment "Moot to me as I do not use EDI, but it was a bit surprising thus the feedback. Do with it what you will." - if you really meant it then why the backlash when I decide that it does not match our aspirations as a project?

In T6224#101909, @wltjr wrote:

I am aware it is in settings. I was using it as a straight editor. To be honest only using EDI so ecrire code is not blamed for elm_code issues.

Edi is not a text editor. If it were then the Ecrire project would be a bit of a waste of time.
Can we not agree that the projects have different ambitions and workflows?

wltjr added a comment.Oct 17 2017, 7:16 AM

Any other editor would prompt to SAVE the changes made to the file. Not silent save when I closed EDI. I have worked with a lot of IDE's and text editors. It simply should have prompted me to save the changes. Like everything else in the world would have....

The backlash was because you proceeded to comment my work flow and mentioned using VC. That was uncalled for and unnecessary. The backlash is due to your arrogance and inability to match the function of just about everything else out there. To me it was one more reason why I should not use EDI. Other comments thus far have fallen on deaf ears as well. I will not file any further feature requests or others for EDI. Nor will I use it. I will stick to elm_tests for elm_code issues.

We do not need to agree on anything. You need to understand people use things in ways they may not be intended. You can either evolve your software to meet the needs of all. Or cater to a select minority, mostly yourself and personal opinions. No way to grow a user base or get others to help develop or further.

I am really regretting switching ecrire over to elm_code in the first place. No way I will ever use EDI for anything I care about or minor stuff. I rather use something like netbeans which can track local history for files not even under VC.

Again I was not trying to use EDI. i was simply using its UI to file bugs so ecrire and other code would not be blamed. Clearly that was a mistake I will not make again. Likely the last time I will touch EDI. Probably remove it and never install it again. Happy?

The Edi workflow for saving is modelled after the Jetbrains IDEs - Intelli-J, RubyMine, SeaLion etc.
They all autosave by default. There is never a prompt to save as files are always persisted after a short delay and/or on focus loss.

This is not some random opinion of mine that I am enforcing
a) this is one (yes, just one) standard way that IDEs can work
b) it can be turned off for any of the users who prefer that it do not work this way.

How is this not understanding that others have different needs in their IDE?

wltjr added a comment.Oct 17 2017, 7:54 AM

Numerous people have such problem with Intellij and also in [Android Studio](). However latest releases of Android Studio it is not set to autosave, normally but still does in some other cases.

Also you are way behind as Intellij also has local history.... Which negates any need for auto save in a far superior way. Which I guess you haven't realized yet....

It is a much debated topic....
http://movingfulcrum.tumblr.com/post/58820190063/eclipse-vs-intellij-dilemma-to-auto-save-or-not

Why Netbeans and Eclipse have much larger communities. Android Studio gave a huge boost to Intellij. Which I have used, but few if any Java programmers I know use it for their daily driver. Most use Eclipse, and others Netbeans. If not the Oracle Developer Studio which Netbeans is a part.

A minority of IDE and Text Editors have auto saved enabled by default. That is a developer choice. Having it be activated by those who want it will upset considerably less people. If others including yourself realize that or not, its your call.

I won't continue the debate about the preferences of those we have worked with as we have worked in different groups clearly. For many of the last 10 years I was also working with XCode which is also autosave by default.
It may indeed be a debated topic. We have implemented it to be on by default with the option to turn off. In this regard it is fully customisable.

In any kind of tabbed environment I find it a pain to switch between 3 or 4 tabs when the build fails to go and save everything, so the default was set.
In the latest EDI the filepanel indicates files with local changes to help make this clear - if there was a SCM/VC in your project it would have indicated the file change was waiting for commit.

What I would like to do is provide a more slick way to get integration with SCM in the hour-to-hour workflow (commit early, commit often) but that is not what this issue seemed to be reporting.

wltjr added a comment.EditedOct 17 2017, 9:09 AM

Look this was a notes file on my desktop. Minor issues I noticed in my eminence theme. That kind of stuff is not worth being in VC. At best maybe open issues to track stuff that needed to be done. Not every text file or other file need be in VC.

I have used a ton of IDEs, CodeWarrior, Visual Studio, Anjuta, Bluefish, others stuff like Dreamweaver, tons of WSIWYG and others. Auto save being on by default is not the normal. Nor is saving tabs or a document when changing to another.

For many including myself CTRL-S is part of normal coding work flow. I am curious though how your building stuff using unsaved work. Usually have to save a file for other things to be able to see such changes. But I can see how your carrying over your personal preferences. With no care to how this effects others. If you want EDI to be YOUR IDE that is fine. If you want others to use it. Then you may consider being more flexible in your approach. After all the request is just to change the default.

More time has been spent in discussion than making the change. Or doing other things in code. Maybe look to better uses of time. This is surely wasting time of mine I do care to spend on other things and not on this futility.

Also while your nitpicking on words. SCM is not what you think it means. Your using the wrong acronyms...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_configuration_management
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_chain_management
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Version_control

It is VCS, VC, RC, or RCS. SCM is very different. Ansible is a SCM, Git is not....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_open-source_configuration_management_software
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_version_control_software

Wikipedia disambiguation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCM under Computing shows "Source control management". My history with Apache is where it got into my language https://maven.apache.org/scm/.
Apologies of that was ambiguous.

Applications are changing all the time and their trends are interesting. One such is that the save button is largely being dropped in favour of constant persistence. Apple has done so in its core office lineup and provided a source control system in the backend to handle the undo (more like time machine than git but this is for users).

If I wanted to nitpick I would point out that you mean "you're" almost every time you use "your". I know that English is not everyone's first language so I don't mention it.

wltjr added a comment.EditedOct 17 2017, 10:07 AM

SCM vs VC etc does not matter to me. It is just an example of how things can be confusing or misinterpreted. Why you should ask vs assume.... There are numerous words that have a British and US spelling, much less other stuff. Some of typos come out of frustration. These are bug reports not essasys... Having lost hours this morning to stupid comments on non technical issues. Complete waste of everyone's time. Why it should never have taken place. My comments never editted, none of this would exist. For the record I have none of these problems with non English speakers.... They tend to have really bad English writing skills.

Yes for sure my fault for reporting an issue. Next time I will not. Its not like i have only noticed a couple issues and none major.... I am sure users will enjoy running into those. Much less take the time to file bugs.

@ajwillia.ms Given our past issues over my use of the word "ditch". Clearly we willl not see eye to eye on many uses of words, conduct saying. All I can say there is I very much regret moving ecrire to elm_code. If I had not done that. I would not need to be interacting at all.

If you still going on about this. You need to spend more time on "Local History" That is something most IDE have implemented or should. Not everything is worth being committed. Trial and error stuff in development is not code you commit. That stuff is what local history helps you track. That you do not use it, you cannot understand its benefits. Once you do, you may realize it is far superior to any auto save.

Rather than doing any EFL development, given time lost already. I guess I need to stop and seriously think if I should continue on. Or go look to contribute to a more welcoming community....

After all you all have plenty enough contributors and volunteers. Lots of new probies etc. This project is so active, so many people committing etc....